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macperl-porters-digest V1 #6
macperl-porters-digest Friday, March 19 1999 Volume 01 : Number 006
[MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
[MacPerl-Porters] Recent and upcoming freeware work (18Mar99)
Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:24:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Peter Prymmer <pvhp@best.com>
Subject: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
Hi,
While I have not yet built MacPerl from source yet (actually I don't
have a copy of MWC :-) I have been going over the build instructions
more closely than ever before. One thing odd that I noted was the
admonishment on MPP&E to name one's MPW_Shell directory :MPW: since
the build scripts expect this (step 3 on pg 329). I have gone over some (not all)
things and e.g. :MacPerl_Src:perl:BuildRules.mk seems to mention
things relative to $(MPW). My (limited :-) understanding of the default
setup of the shell is that {MPW} is set to {Shelldirectory}
and that neither need be explicitly expanded. So is the book wrong
or have I simply failed to find the explcit dependency on path naming convention?
(I realize that *if* I had a working compoiler I could simply test this
with a build - alas my budget for such things is somewhat limited :-).
At any rate I have started working on a Mac port of Configure that I am
calling Configure.mpw (for lack of a better name) that checks the MANIFEST
file and the build environment for necessary MPW tools, libs, headers, etc.
Though I note that Tcl is setup to build using Applescripts it seemed
advantageous to write Perl's Mac script in MPW - does that sound reasonable?
So I am curious: where will the Mac specific files wind up in the perl tar ball?
Will there be a folder :mac: (er, mac/)? It would seem that :MacPerl_Src:perl:
maps to /perl5.005_5n/ (if you'll pardon the unixism) with the exception
of the dmake files, some extra perl scripts, and the following source
files:
CheckIsRecord.c
ExtractStubSymbols
HandleSocket.cp
icemalloc.c
icemalloc.h
macish.c
macish.h
missing.c
nostdio.h
Perl.rsrc
perl.stubexclude
perl.stubsymbols
PerlStub (136k stub lib???)
runbigperl.c
runperl.c
SafeDel # MPW script
SubLaunch.c
SubLaunch.h
UnPreload.c
config.mac # MPW equiv of config.sh
Does that list look about right? Would it be OK to assume that a Configure script
would need to Move or Duplicate those files from the :mac: directory into the
main perl5.005_5n build directory prior to the build?
While I haven't diffed things yet, some files will obviously need patching in
the main perl5* directory (e.g. run.c).
Also, is it reasonable to assume that the stuff in :MacPerl_Src:macperl: will
still be distributed separately from the perl tar ball?
Thanks for your indulgence.
Peter Prymmer
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:47:18 -0400 (AST)
From: Arved Sandstrom <Arved_37@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Peter Prymmer wrote:
> While I have not yet built MacPerl from source yet (actually I don't
> have a copy of MWC :-)
I have reason to believe that you are as likely to be able to build
MacPerl with MrC under Apple MPW (all free) as you are with CW Pro 3 or 4.
For anyone interested in doing XS stuff, and potentially being able to
build MP also, I recommend getting Apple MPW. The XS process certainly
works, with tweaks. Alan Fry has been doing most of the "proof of concept"
work with MrC, and when we come out with the MacPerl XS tutorial, using
Apple MPW will be in it.
> more closely than ever before. One thing odd that I noted was the
> admonishment on MPP&E to name one's MPW_Shell directory :MPW: since
> the build scripts expect this (step 3 on pg 329). I have gone over some (not all)
> things and e.g. :MacPerl_Src:perl:BuildRules.mk seems to mention
> things relative to $(MPW). My (limited :-) understanding of the default
> setup of the shell is that {MPW} is set to {Shelldirectory}
> and that neither need be explicitly expanded. So is the book wrong
> or have I simply failed to find the explcit dependency on path naming convention?
> (I realize that *if* I had a working compoiler I could simply test this
> with a build - alas my budget for such things is somewhat limited :-).
>
Well, $(MPW) is a dmake variable, and {MPW} is the Shell variable. By the
time you finish setting up Codewarrior MPW, {MPW} is properly set, but
that doesn't mean that $(MPW) is.
As you say, the first build you ever do with any of the BuildRules stuff
will show you whether or not your paths are OK, and they're easy fixes.
> At any rate I have started working on a Mac port of Configure that I am
> calling Configure.mpw (for lack of a better name) that checks the MANIFEST
> file and the build environment for necessary MPW tools, libs, headers, etc.
> Though I note that Tcl is setup to build using Applescripts it seemed
> advantageous to write Perl's Mac script in MPW - does that sound reasonable?
>
Well, you could just write it in Perl... :-)
As far as the rest of the post, I'd be as interested as you are in finding
out how a MacPerl upgrade to 5.005 is coming along. If I download one more
module that I can't use because it's using qr, or things like that, I
won't be held accountable. :-) (Things aren't so bad - I get my 5.005
jollies over on MkLinux...)
Arved
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:28:55 -0500
From: Chris Nandor <pudge@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
At 07.47 -0500 1999.03.18, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>As far as the rest of the post, I'd be as interested as you are in finding
>out how a MacPerl upgrade to 5.005 is coming along. If I download one more
>module that I can't use because it's using qr, or things like that, I
>won't be held accountable. :-) (Things aren't so bad - I get my 5.005
>jollies over on MkLinux...)
Well, the MacPerl porting to 5.005 is being worked on, albeit slowly. I
personally wouldn't advance further without word from Matthias, as I
wouldn't want to see wasted effort. He is working on GUSI II (the
foundation for the sockets in MacPerl) these days, from what I can tell.
Note that awhile ago he asked if there was any rush for 5.005, or if we
should just wait and do it slowly and get threading working, rather than do
a 5.005 without threading. The consensus seemed to be the slower approach.
Heck, I still use 5.004_04 on all my machines at work, so I didn't see need
for a rush.
It would, of course, be useful for Matthias to give us a real update, if he
finds the time, and he if he is actually on the list. :)
- --
Chris Nandor mailto:pudge@pobox.com http://pudge.net/
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:34:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Peter Prymmer <pvhp@best.com>
Subject: Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Peter Prymmer wrote:
>
> > While I have not yet built MacPerl from source yet (actually I don't
> > have a copy of MWC :-)
>
> I have reason to believe that you are as likely to be able to build
> MacPerl with MrC under Apple MPW (all free) as you are with CW Pro 3 or 4.
Interesting. I was wondering what prevented the use of MrC or SC.
Of course the build*.mk files would need tweaking (yet another job
for the Makefile extraction process of Configure.mpw :-)
> For anyone interested in doing XS stuff, and potentially being able to
> build MP also, I recommend getting Apple MPW. The XS process certainly
> works, with tweaks. Alan Fry has been doing most of the "proof of concept"
> work with MrC, and when we come out with the MacPerl XS tutorial, using
> Apple MPW will be in it.
Cool.
> Well, $(MPW) is a dmake variable, and {MPW} is the Shell variable. By the
> time you finish setting up Codewarrior MPW, {MPW} is properly set, but
> that doesn't mean that $(MPW) is.
>
> As you say, the first build you ever do with any of the BuildRules stuff
> will show you whether or not your paths are OK, and they're easy fixes.
OK. It turns out it is also an easy thing to check for from within
an MPW script such as Configure.mpw. I guess I'll put it in on a
condition that will make it easy to override.
> Well, you could just write it in Perl... :-)
Nah. It is interesting to see how different shells handle the stuff
that Configure does. I suppose Applescript would have been more "native"
but MPW is impressive, and a requisite for the build. Of course it helps
matters quite a bit that it's freely downloadable. I've stumbled across
several "missing tool" problems that I now check for in Configure.mpw.
> As far as the rest of the post, I'd be as interested as you are in finding
> out how a MacPerl upgrade to 5.005 is coming along. If I download one more
> module that I can't use because it's using qr, or things like that, I
> won't be held accountable. :-) (Things aren't so bad - I get my 5.005
> jollies over on MkLinux...)
Well I was not trying to push things. Actually I thought that 5.006 would
be the great Mac integration release.
Peter Prymmer
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:40:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Peter Prymmer <pvhp@best.com>
Subject: Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, Chris Nandor wrote:
> Well, the MacPerl porting to 5.005 is being worked on, albeit slowly. I
> personally wouldn't advance further without word from Matthias, as I
> wouldn't want to see wasted effort. He is working on GUSI II (the
> foundation for the sockets in MacPerl) these days, from what I can tell.
>
> Note that awhile ago he asked if there was any rush for 5.005, or if we
> should just wait and do it slowly and get threading working, rather than do
> a 5.005 without threading. The consensus seemed to be the slower approach.
> Heck, I still use 5.004_04 on all my machines at work, so I didn't see need
> for a rush.
I am not in a rush for a 5.005 and was thinking more in terms of 5.006
as the "Mac included" release.
Peter Prymmer
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:40:53 -0500
From: Chris Nandor <pudge@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
At 11.34 -0500 1999.03.18, Peter Prymmer wrote:
>> Well, you could just write it in Perl... :-)
>
>Nah. It is interesting to see how different shells handle the stuff
>that Configure does. I suppose Applescript would have been more "native"
>but MPW is impressive, and a requisite for the build. Of course it helps
>matters quite a bit that it's freely downloadable. I've stumbled across
>several "missing tool" problems that I now check for in Configure.mpw.
There is a chance that the build process could be moved over to Metrowerks.
I dunno.
>Well I was not trying to push things. Actually I thought that 5.006 would
>be the great Mac integration release.
It might be.
- --
Chris Nandor mailto:pudge@pobox.com http://pudge.net/
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:40:03 -0800
From: pvhp <pvhp@forte.com>
Subject: Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
At 11:40 AM 18-03-1999 -0500, Chris Nandor wrote:
>There is a chance that the build process could be moved over to Metrowerks.
>I dunno.
Ah well that would change things a bit.
>>Well I was not trying to push things. Actually I thought that 5.006 would
>>be the great Mac integration release.
>
>It might be.
Oh don't sound so glum :-)
Peter Prymmer
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------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 1999 07:09:28 +0100
From: Matthias Neeracher <neeri@iis.ee.ethz.ch>
Subject: Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
In article <199903180724.XAA10127@shell8.ba.best.com>, Peter Prymmer <pvhp@best.com> writes:
> While I have not yet built MacPerl from source yet (actually I don't
> have a copy of MWC :-) I have been going over the build instructions
> more closely than ever before.
Cool!
> One thing odd that I noted was the
> admonishment on MPP&E to name one's MPW_Shell directory :MPW:
Well, does anybody ever name it differently? :-)
I've never tested with any other name, but offhand I can't recall any
hardcoded references to it anyway.
> (I realize that *if* I had a working compoiler I could simply test this
> with a build - alas my budget for such things is somewhat limited :-).
> At any rate I have started working on a Mac port of Configure that I am
> calling Configure.mpw (for lack of a better name) that checks the MANIFEST
> file and the build environment for necessary MPW tools, libs, headers, etc.
> Though I note that Tcl is setup to build using Applescripts it seemed
> advantageous to write Perl's Mac script in MPW - does that sound reasonable?
Well, I'm surprised that you would have the *time* in your budget for such an
enterprise :-) The task seems potentially extremely useful, but doing it in
MPW shell language seems a very difficult way of accomplishing it. On the
other hand, MPW might not be all that much worse than /bin/sh, except that it
doesn't support any here documents.
> So I am curious: where will the Mac specific files wind up in the perl tar ball?
> Will there be a folder :mac: (er, mac/)?
Yes, that's the plan.
> PerlStub (136k stub lib???)
Sounds about right. It exports more than 100 symbols for 2 different
architectures.
> Does that list look about right? Would it be OK to assume that a Configure script
> would need to Move or Duplicate those files from the :mac: directory into the
> main perl5.005_5n build directory prior to the build?
That question is not quite settled yet, but it sounds like a reasonable plan.
> While I haven't diffed things yet, some files will obviously need patching in
> the main perl5* directory (e.g. run.c).
All the Mac specific parts are already conditionalized on "macintosh".
> Also, is it reasonable to assume that the stuff in :MacPerl_Src:macperl: will
> still be distributed separately from the perl tar ball?
Yes, and so will the contents of ext/
Matthias
- --
Matthias Neeracher <neeri@iis.ee.ethz.ch> http://www.iis.ee.ethz.ch/~neeri
"And that's why I am going to turn this world upside down, and make
of it a fire so *bright* that someone real will notice"
-- Vernor Vinge, _Tatja Grimm's World_
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------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 1999 07:42:12 +0100
From: Matthias Neeracher <neeri@iis.ee.ethz.ch>
Subject: Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
In article <v04020a12b316dcf66a64@[192.168.0.77]>, Chris Nandor <pudge@pobox.com> writes:
> There is a chance that the build process could be moved over to Metrowerks.
> I dunno.
I'm sort of torn up over this decision. There are two camps, both of which have
a plausible claim that moving things their way would simplify the build
process:
a) There are those who would like to streamline the existing makefile
infrastructure, and Peter's Configure.mpw work would certainly fit
in well there.
b) OTOH, there is the idea of moving to a CodeWarrior IDE based build,
which is becoming more attractive with the forthcoming XML infrastructure
for CW Project files and with the improved support for Perl in CW.
Matthias
- --
Matthias Neeracher <neeri@iis.ee.ethz.ch> http://www.iis.ee.ethz.ch/~neeri
"And that's why I am going to turn this world upside down, and make
of it a fire so *bright* that someone real will notice"
-- Vernor Vinge, _Tatja Grimm's World_
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------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 1999 07:44:24 +0100
From: Matthias Neeracher <neeri@iis.ee.ethz.ch>
Subject: Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
In article <Pine.GSO.3.95.iB1.0.990318083430.19354B-100000@halifax.chebucto.ns.ca>, Arved Sandstrom <Arved_37@chebucto.ns.ca> writes:
> On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Peter Prymmer wrote:
>> While I have not yet built MacPerl from source yet (actually I don't
>> have a copy of MWC :-)
> I have reason to believe that you are as likely to be able to build
> MacPerl with MrC under Apple MPW (all free) as you are with CW Pro 3 or 4.
Last time I looked, GUSI was totally incompatible with Apple's MPW
compilers (in particular SC, I don't think I've looked at MrC). I'd like
for GUSI 2 to be SC & MrC compatible, though.
Matthias
- --
Matthias Neeracher <neeri@iis.ee.ethz.ch> http://www.iis.ee.ethz.ch/~neeri
"One fine day in my odd past..." -- Pixies, _Planet of Sound_
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------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 1999 08:00:22 +0100
From: Matthias Neeracher <neeri@iis.ee.ethz.ch>
Subject: [MacPerl-Porters] Recent and upcoming freeware work (18Mar99)
I'd like to become a bit more regular in my reporting habits, so here's a
snapshot of things:
- GUSI 2.0 is nearing beta. The documentation is nearly done.
One task on which I'm working is an editor for configuration files.
- Also, I'd like to have any necessary paperwork with Apple in place
before I release anything, and I still haven't looked in detail at
what I need there.
- GUSI 2.0 covers what I believe to be the core area of current use,
supporting threads, MSL, Open Transport TCP/IP.
- Once 2.0 is released, I'll get to work on the features which are needed
for my MacPerl plans:
- Sfio support (and a thread safe sfio).
- Heavy weight threads / light weight processes, i.e., threads carrying
their own stdio table and environment variables.
These will form the core of the 2.1 enhancements.
- Other improvements for GUSI will be tackled subject to development and
testing resources. In particular, it's likely that there will be
multicast support if anybody can give me a good way of testing it.
- In the next few weeks, my aging PowerMac 6100/60 will be relieved
by the arrival of "megatherion", a 350MHz G3 minitower, which should
speed up builds enormously and motivate me to add support for non-Metrowerks
compilers in the 2.1 timeframe.
Matthias
- --
Matthias Neeracher <neeri@iis.ee.ethz.ch> http://www.iis.ee.ethz.ch/~neeri
"And that's why I am going to turn this world upside down, and make
of it a fire so *bright* that someone real will notice"
-- Vernor Vinge, _Tatja Grimm's World_
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:29:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Peter Prymmer <pvhp@best.com>
Subject: Re: [MacPerl-Porters] Configure.mpw
On 19 Mar 1999, Matthias Neeracher wrote:
> In article <199903180724.XAA10127@shell8.ba.best.com>, Peter Prymmer <pvhp@best.com> writes:
> > While I have not yet built MacPerl from source yet (actually I don't
> > have a copy of MWC :-) I have been going over the build instructions
> > more closely than ever before.
>
> Cool!
>
> > One thing odd that I noted was the
> > admonishment on MPP&E to name one's MPW_Shell directory :MPW:
>
> Well, does anybody ever name it differently? :-)
Er, that would be me. I seemed to have named them things like
:MPW_Feb_1998: and :MPW-GM_March_1999:, so I'll put the check in :-)
> I've never tested with any other name, but offhand I can't recall any
> hardcoded references to it anyway.
Apparently(?) it matters to dmake (???)
> > (I realize that *if* I had a working compoiler I could simply test this
> > with a build - alas my budget for such things is somewhat limited :-).
>
> > At any rate I have started working on a Mac port of Configure that I am
> > calling Configure.mpw (for lack of a better name) that checks the MANIFEST
> > file and the build environment for necessary MPW tools, libs, headers, etc.
> > Though I note that Tcl is setup to build using Applescripts it seemed
> > advantageous to write Perl's Mac script in MPW - does that sound reasonable?
>
> Well, I'm surprised that you would have the *time* in your budget for such an
> enterprise :-) The task seems potentially extremely useful, but doing it in
> MPW shell language seems a very difficult way of accomplishing it. On the
> other hand, MPW might not be all that much worse than /bin/sh, except that it
> doesn't support any here documents.
(time-heh) :=}
I don't mind multiple echo's and grouping them () with I/O redirection.
What I do miss are functions or even goto statements for calling repeated
code with only slightly different parameters on each pass.
BTW anyone wanting to pick up a few very good cross-platform shell tips
need look no further than perl's Configure - it knocks the socks off of
anything autoconf ever generated (although autoconf can be coaxed into
generating DCL :-).
> > So I am curious: where will the Mac specific files wind up in the perl tar ball?
> > Will there be a folder :mac: (er, mac/)?
>
> Yes, that's the plan.
Great.
> > PerlStub (136k stub lib???)
>
> Sounds about right. It exports more than 100 symbols for 2 different
> architectures.
OK. I think there are also .gif files in the perl tar ball, this and the
resource files wouldn't be the first non-text files in there.
> > Does that list look about right? Would it be OK to assume that a Configure script
> > would need to Move or Duplicate those files from the :mac: directory into the
> > main perl5.005_5n build directory prior to the build?
>
> That question is not quite settled yet, but it sounds like a reasonable plan.
OK, Configure.mpw is still pretty maleable at this stage.
> > While I haven't diffed things yet, some files will obviously need patching in
> > the main perl5* directory (e.g. run.c).
>
> All the Mac specific parts are already conditionalized on "macintosh".
Yes I saw the preproc directives - it looks straightforward.
> > Also, is it reasonable to assume that the stuff in :MacPerl_Src:macperl: will
> > still be distributed separately from the perl tar ball?
>
> Yes, and so will the contents of ext/
OK. I note that both VMS and OS/2 have some rather platform specific
extension building that they do as part of the one perl tar ball, so I
don't think *some* Mac specific extensions would be scoffed at (provided
they are not too big of course). If we can't greatly reduce the number of
source code kits that need to be downloaded we might at least try to make
the auxiliary ones smaller.
Thanks for the feedback.
Peter Prymmer
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------------------------------
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