Re: [MacPerl] We're getting Noisy...

[Matthias Ulrich Neeracher <neeri@iis.ee.ethz.ch>]

Unfortunately, meta-discussions like this are often considerable noise sources
by themselves. I have therefore taken the liberty of setting the list status to
"moderated" for at least 24 hours and if necessary a little longer. Messages
relating to this discussion will be posted, rejected, or summarized as I see
fit, in the interest of keeping the discussion concise.

Tim Howland <thowland@vsi5.vsicom.com> writes:
>In the last few weeks, the signal to noise ratio has dramatically dropped.

Make that "months".

I probably should start by outlining a few facts that I am not willing or able
to change:

 - The MacPerl mailing list has close to 800 subscribers, which probably is
   close to the limit for an unmoderated mailing list (That means that
   MacPerl is a lot bigger than the general purpose MacScripting mailing list,
   for instance).
 - There is no digest mode, which could alleviate the traffic burden
   considerably. Sorry about that, but our admin & me just have no time to test
   & deply a digest system.
 - To alleviate the problem of people having to unsubscribe because of
   overwhelming traffic, there is now at least the mac-perl-announce mailing
   list to keep some minimal contact going.

> But if you're reading this, you've probably seen the recent posts from people
> wondering why their CGI doesn't work under Apache, how to open a new window
> in JavaScript, the guy trying to get free software from god knows where to
> work without actually looking at the code, and people trying to work out the
> logic of Regex... All (or at least some) of these are good questions, just
> completely misplaced and off-topic.

Agreed. Discipline is always a problem with mailing lists, and the MacPerl list
is no exception. I might have to include a section in the Q&A admonishing
people to stick to MacPerl questions.

One of the reasons for this unfortunate trend is that comp.lang.perl.misc has
too much traffic, which gets intimidating, so people move to the gentler world
of the MacPerl mailing list for their questions.

> Moderating the list puts a heavy load on the moderator- unless it's some kind
> of automated system set to filter out "CGI" or "JavaScript" in the subject
> lines- and that puts an undue load on the moderatees to avoid the "Secret
> Code Words" in their posts.

In fact, we already have such a filter in place. It watches for "unsubscribe"
and catches about 10-20 messages a month.

The problem with CGI questions, however, runs deeper than a simple filter. The
majority of CGI questions *are* within the current scope of the mailing list.
In fact, I've recently started actively encouraging people to send MacPerl CGI
questions to the mailing list (instead of to my personal mailbox; I don't do
much CGI programming).

However, the CGI and the non-CGI community have quite different backgrounds,
as far as I can tell, so they have few common interests.

Thus, it seems to me that the solution would be to create a separate
mac-perl-cgi mailing list (unlike introducing digests, this is a matter
of about half a person-hour), as has been proposed a while ago.

>Does anybody have any ideas? Perhaps an Autofaq similar to what is used on
>comp.lang.perl.misc? Maybe a FAQ that is mailed to them explaining what to
>post & what not to, immediately on signup,

This already exists. Maybe your own signup occurred too long ago for you to
still remember it :-) It needs some updating, though.

I also don't post the Q&A frequently enough. Starting today, I'll try to repost
it every month. I suppose I should also occasionally post the MacPerl FAQ, or
at least a pointer to it.

>with the explicit warning of permanent unsubscription if the rules are broken?

Luckily, in the whole existence of the mailing list, I've never had to remove
anyone for any reason other than that their mailers started bouncing messages.
The people I've met on this list seemed to be quite reasonable and receptive to
my ideas as to what belongs and doesn't belong on the list - even if some of
them occasionally are sloppy or lazy and ask an off-topic question or forget
their unsubscription instructions.

To summarize:

 - I'll try to improve the contents and availability of the Q&A list.
 - I'll create a new MacPerl CGI specific mailing list.
 - Everybody else reactivizes their good judgment as to where to post
   questions.

Matthias

-----
Matthias Neeracher   <neeri@iis.ee.ethz.ch>   http://www.iis.ee.ethz.ch/~neeri
   "I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation
    by reorganizing;  and a wonderful method it can be for creating the
    illusion of progress while producing confusion,  inefficiency,  and
    demoralization."              -- Petronius Arbiter (circa A.D. 60)