Charles, I struggled with references for a while. Take: $ref->xxx A helpful focus for me was to regard the "->" bit to mean "Out of all that $ref on the left refers to, just give me the bit that xxx on the right signifies". Kind of like aiming an arrow "->" at part of a target. While using $,@ or %, as in $$somescalarref or %$somehashref, gave me the whole lot. Maybe this is a little basic for where your at. If so no offence intended. BTW ... enjoyed your tutorial. Cheers ... John ===== Want to unsubscribe from this list? ===== Send mail with body "unsubscribe" to macperl-request@macperl.org