Re: [MacPerl] MAC Filesystem Help

[mark@cheers.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark Manning/Muniz Eng.)]

Not to get in a flame war over this but....

According to Chris Nandor:
> 
> No.  If they want to learn, they can look at the implementations of the
> existing modules.

And if they don't understand how the modules even work what
then?  Too bad?  Tough cookies?  This list is here
partially to help people learn how to do something.  True,
a "MacPerl" something.  But something nonetheless.

I believe the above statement is equivalent to dropping
someone on a deserted isle with all the equipment they need
to survive and a book.  And then saying "I hope you live.
See you in a month."  Only the book is in a language they
can't understand.

> Not at all!  I used File::Find long before I understood exactly how it
> worked.  Further, if you want to reinvent the wheel, fine; but this list is
> not, IMO, the place to do it, especially since at that point it is usually
> not MacPerl-specific.  But if someone opens up File::Find and sees
> something MacPerl-specific and has a question about that part, then that
> would be a good post for this list.

No.  You are changing what I said.  I said you need to know
the basics.  You have just said you knew the basics before
you used File::Find.  Get it?  Not EVERYTHING not EXACTLY -
just the basics.  Like how to open a file, how to read a
file, how to open a directory, read it, close it, etc....
Even you had to know the basics before you started using
File::Find.  And that means they are going to be posting
programs or questions which may seem totally obvious to
you.  But it isn't to them.

> Sometimes people like me are not overtly polite.  If I have been too blunt
> to anyone, I apologize.  I don't always have the time to make the effort,
> or to write posts this lengthy.

I never said you were not polite.  Nor have I said this of
Paul.  What I did say was that sometimes we (myself
included) treat people as though they should know this
stuff already.  This kind of thing happens.  Either people
get tired of saying the same thing over and over or the way
someone asks a question irritates them or for whatever
reason.

> Well, I will never tell anyone to code that way.  Perl is an exercise in
> impatience and laziness.  I have a C friend who used to feel the same way.
> I finally convinced him that if he wants to spend the time to understand
> how it all works, he is welcome to do so, and I am sure he will learn a
> thing or two.  You take the high road, I'll take the low road, and I'll be
> in Scotland before ye.
> 
> If you wanna do it, go ahead.  But that is not something for this list, IMO.

Well, actually, you do.  Every time you show someone how to
do something you are teaching them.  And I have seen many
times that you have taken the time to teach basic methods
of doing something.  But every time you knock someone for
trying to do something by hand you are doing the reverse.
And as I said - I don't care if you or anyone else says
"Hey - you should check out this module called <blah>
because it does everything you want to do."  Just don't
knock'em down before you pick them up and show them the
way.

And last, but not least, I _do_ feel that this is in-line
with this list.  This list is not a list to knock what
someone is doing.  It is a list to help people out.  Just
like the newsgroups though, you get a broad range of
people.  All the way from people who know nothing to
experts.  But no matter who they are I really do not feel
that we should jump on them about not using the modules.

And my poke back at you about the high/low road is: Neither
kingdoms, nor castles, nor even computer languages can run
without the work of grunts who are willing to do the dirty
work so others don't have to soil their hands.  You know
this is true.  After all, you've made a few modules
yourself to help people out.  But in order to do this you
had to learn _how_ to do it.  So why, now, are you saying
no one else should learn this information too?

However, I also know that Matthias probably doesn't want or
need a flame war.  So I would be more than happy to
continue this via e-mail only with whomever wants to debate
this.

Later.

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